News and notes from around the interweb:
- Data analytics suggest the decline of Flyertalk, what happened?
- Grandmother is suing TSA after being strip searched even though TSA claims not to do strip searches TSA presumably squares this circle because they made the woman take her own clothing off and show them her tampon.
- Lufthansa fined for overcharging tax for passengers on award tickets
- More changes without notice from Hertz why do companies expect any loyalty when they do this? If you still rent cars at all, why are you still renting from Hertz when they disrespect you this way?
- Jennifer Garner dancing and taking a conference call at the airport
Flyertalk has definitely changed. However, I stick around the UA forums as there are good regular posters there.
Trolls and IT issues can’t take credit for FT’s decline. If the great boon of mistake fares wasn’t over, people would still be flocking to the site.
Once upon a time miles were hard to earn and easy to use. A few people discovered tricks and shared them, first in print and then online at FlyerTalk. Readers gained a lot of value from a little time spent. They flew the Concorde for $1100.
Today’s loyalty programs cannot deliver extraordinary value, period. Readers gain little for their time spent. That’s the root of the problem, not technology.
Good point, “nsx” at FlyerTalk
I figure reddit is taking away from flyertalk. How many people here are part of a private reddit group?
I was a fairly frequent user of FT and yes, the mistake fares caught my attention. So did the mileage runs and other creative methods used to game they system and/or accumulate extra points. However, there was more to it than that–flight reviews were also informative and kept me coming back to the boards.
What eventually turned me off is the snarky, condescending attitude some board member adopted when another member would ask a simple question, usually a question out of curiosity or seeking a real answer. I’m not standing up for the newbies with 3 posts who ask, “any mistake fares from Akron to Bangkok under $99?”. I am talking about those of us who had 200, 300, 500 posts, who would ask what the best routing for a multi-city award flight on SkyTeam might be.
Yes, I miss FT. But I don’t miss the attitudes of some of the members!
Honestly, I think Flyertalk is about the same as it used to be. This is not a bad thing. I don’t think “growth” is necessarily good for that community. And it’s certainly better than monetization: would it have been better if flyertalk had become tripadvisor?
@KimmieA
Yeah, I have fond memories of the “do a search” police. Except search has been broken for years, so I have no idea what they actually expected people to do.
TBH, blogs have replaced FT for me.
I still like Flyertalk for getting advice about airline and hotel rules, transit times and issues, opportunities or problems with accruing and using miles/points, destinations I’m interested in, etc.
FT is becoming a lot like the East German press, all airlines are good, there are no mistake fares, there’s no Coupon Connection and any negative comments will be moderated away. And heaven help anyone who asks a simple question.
@NSX nailed it.
Flyer Talk was the best in the good old days. It was more discreet, deals were shared by those who actually flew, and there was a feeling of brethren within the butt in seat flyer community. Flyer Talk was for and about and made up of people who actually HAD to endlessly stick their body on a plane for work during the week.
Then the blogs came along. They touted First Class and Dom for simply using your credit card at Costco. Google ate this up and spit it out in searches, TPG suddenly appeared on talk shows, everyone was learning that you actually never needed to fly to visit the grandkids and you could even do it in First Class. Soon even Mabel in Des Moines was playing the game.
It was fun for awhile. Those were the days. We actually got award flights a few months in advance for saver levels, were recognized as elites, and felt a sense of value for the days upon days spent sitting in airports eating dried up turkey sandwiches on the run because we arrived later at 11PM and had a room booked at a Courtyard Marriott and no other chance to nourish. But it was good. We knew that the reward was there for our loyalty. We were earning that Dom. Heck, I even flew the Concorde three times (as NSX mentioned) when USAir was aligned with BA and it was an attainable award (ok, this was way back in the day, lol)
Then blogs. “Mabel” learned to game it. Everyone did. It even became a hobby for some. Airlines saw it and became credit card companies. Bloggers became affiliates. Everyone soon became a blogger. Then airlines saw they were giving too much when Mabel showed pictures of herself in Emirates First. So, they devalued, forced us into paying exorbitant amounts of points and led us to where we are now.
The end is near. And for the Flyer Talk people of days passed it is a sad time indeed. We are still chugging along the old fashioned way. Actually flying. Actually paying for flights. And hoping for those rewards as a perk for our loyalty.
Perhaps one day an airline will come along that will say, “Ya know, whatever happened to those people that REALLY fly? That HAVE to fly? We don’t need to be a credit card company. What we need to do is actually remember and treat the butt in seat people well.”
I dream of course. But at 55 years old I can say I have seen it all with the evolution of flying, points and, “The Game.”. And what I see now is truly disheartening. Maybe I am just not “woke” enough.
Flyertalk is in decline because vindictive moderators have turned it into their own private echo chamber.
@ Ed – More like a complete lack of moderation. Examples: Being labeled as racist simply for disliking curry or being screamed at for placing luggage in overhead bins across the aisle. FT is basically filled with the same dolts you must put up with on your average flight, so why bother putting up with them when not flying.
Agree with chancer here. The community turned rotten and i haven’t visited in about a year due to the negativity there especially about traveling with kids.
@Ed – spot on. Agreed on the moderators completely. They know who pays the bills…can’t complain too much now!
Plus there are plenty of pro-company plants (like fly18725 anyone?) who don’t disclose their connection to the company but clearly are in the bag for specific airlines (coughUAcough).
@nsx nailed it. I’ve been on FT for almost 20 years and have never posted or visited less than in the last 5 years as airlines devalued their programs. I used to do mileage runs to Hong Kong, London, Stockholm, or take 4-segment legs from SFO to SEA. It was my hobby and I loved flying. It just stopped being worth it. Minimum spend requirements, spend based earned slashed my mileage counts, and the benefits of top tier status more or less dissolved. Now, I might visit FT a few times a month, and mostly flip through the hotel and credit card forums. The airlines forums are useless and uninteresting to me now.
For me it was the snarky mods too like spiff from coupon connection.
nsx and the ensuing commenters have it right – the issue isn’t anything to do with the FT community, which has always been snarky, or the tech platform, which has always been clunky.
The answer is much simpler – there just isn’t as much to talk about anymore. The mergers are over, MS is gone, churning is dead, the loyalty programs hardly offer any perks any more, and interesting fares are caught instantly by pricing algorithms before they can be booked. All of the exotic locations have been mass commercialized, so even trip reports are pretty vanilla.
All that there really is left to do is write hotel reviews or complain about travel companies IT problems. There just isn’t that much exciting going on in the world of frequent travel.
Let’s be honest; just like Inside Flyer, FlyerTalk is pretty much DOA. Frequent flyer forums, as good as they once were, are mostly irrelevant today. Their end-of-life is pretty much to be expected. Why? There’s no absence of frequent flyer “experts” passing along every imaginable travel tip in the blogosphere. Want to know about the latest travel booking shortcuts? Mistake fares? Best use of miles? It’s all out there for anyone and everyone to find. And that includes the airlines and travel industry, closing down most every mistake fare and travel shortcut as soon as someone blabs about it on the internet. The days of easy airline status and luxury travel on a few $ have pretty much ended. A decade ago, airline brand loyalty and accumulating dedicated miles made plenty of sense. At this point, with the airlines and banks monetizing every single thing possible, not so much.
Re: Flyertalk. There still are websites and blogs that try to cover all miles and points opportunities, usually in an organized, easy to use format. Modesty prevents my suggesting my favorite…
I’ve noticed a bit more bad behavior if not hostile from posters and personal attacks for no reasonable reasons
Moderators who are good or very bad and a new format online to post that I hate
Loved the original and on a given day it still has its iconic charms and good info
Outstanding Bloggers like Gary and others have taken the most important information and made it more focused and informative so readers don’t have to sift through so much drama to cut to the chase to get the most important info
“Dwondermeant says:
June 9, 2019 at 12:40 pm
I’ve noticed a bit more bad behavior if not hostile from posters and personal attacks for no reasonable reasons”
I have noticed this also.
The formerly useful flyertalk forum we used to know has decayed into an almost useless site.
And to think that MilePoint was supposed to be better than FlyerTalk…InsideFlyer’s forums are mostly dead today.
I applaud FT for monitoring their boards and not letting the bully’s beat up on a few airlines that some people on here have issues with the CEO or VP. I am tired of the grandmother who had a 3 hr delay (boo hoo) or the drunks who the airlines rightfull remove from the flight. Also, safety first, I’d rather be delayed 3 hrs then dead.
All I have to say is “Can I get you cheese with your whine!”
The duo Lavont Flanders and Emerson Callum are something else – their story sounds like a porno flick!
I am not sure on how they are connected to FT though!
KimmieA above said it all about Flyertalk:
“What eventually turned me off is the snarky, condescending attitude some board member adopted when another member would ask a simple question,..”
I agree exactly. I do a reasonable amount of flying 120-150k/yr – 1K for years – but I am not an expert on everything flying – it’s not my job to fly – but it’s something I need to do….but when I have reasonable questions and comments, almost without question there are “snarky” responses that make me literally just stay away from asking the question….I do not need to be treated this way and I really don’t understand why so many responses are like this. I would suggest its almost pathogenic.
For over 30 years since 1989 I have managed a list-serve group (4500) of scientists who ask questions and seek useful answers. There are always new people who ask the same question that has been asked 20 times over the years…but my colleagues always answer in an informative, non judgemental way. Some of the people on Flyertalk could learn from this model.
I miss Randy Petersen. It’s not been the same since November 2010. Enough said.