Here’s the story of a family that tried to fly Delta a week and a half ago but was kicked off an oversold flight because they wouldn’t give up a seat they paid for so that another passenger could sit in it. Delta instructed them to treat their youngest child as a lap infant not to have them sit in a seat.
Here is a video of Delta airlines booting myself, my wife and my 2 children ages 1 and 2 off delta flight 2222 April 23 from Maui to LAX.
They oversold the flight and asked us to give up a seat we purchased for my older son that my younger son was sitting in. You will hear them lie to me numerous times to get my son out of the seat.The end result was we were all kicked off the flight. They then filled our 4 seats with 4 customers that had tickets but no seats.
They oversold the flight. When will this all stop? It was midnight in Maui and we had to get a hotel and purchase new tickets the following day.
The flight was delayed by about an hour.
The problem for Delta is this sounds like a passenger being kicked off an oversold United flight. The problem for the family is that they were doing something squirrely under standard airline rules (although it’s something that people in general might reasonably think is ok).
The family originally intended to fly with the young child as a lap infant, but they sent their 18 year old son home on an earlier flight. That way, they thought, they could just use his seat for the baby.
They boarded the flight, and the four family members took the four seats they had reserved.
The airline, though, saw only three of them as boarded. The 18 year old was a no show for the flight. And they gave the seat to another passenger.
The father says that “Delta knew he was planning to use the seat for his younger son when they boarded their return flight.”
“You’re saying you’re gonna give that away to someone else when I paid for that seat?” Brian Schear says to an airline employee. “That’s not right.”
When the family refused to move, the airline threatened them with jail — and worse.
They tried to refuse and argued with airline staff, but say they were threatened with being sent to jail.
“You have to give up the seat or you’re going to jail, your wife is going to jail and they’ll take your kids from you,” Brian Schear recalled the airline staff telling him.
They didn’t want to go to jail, so they agreed to hold the young son on a lap for the flight. The airline still kicked them off, they booked themselves a hotel room and paid “$2,000 for another flight the next day, on United.”
The family recorded video of the incident.
Great take, AannaT. It seems like in all of these situations blame can be assigned to both sides, but as the party providing the service and with more knowledge of the rules and regulations, the airlines need to be willing to show more understanding and compassion.
What I don’t get is why the family was not helped by Delta after being kicked off. Were they just given a refund and told to get out? It seems like Delta sill had an obligation to get them to their destination, even if it was on a later flight.
Delta airline needs to be shut down worst aieine in history!!!!
The family was completely in the wrong and Delta did the right thing. This one is pretty straight forward.
Again both sides wrong in a situation. The parents are wrong. You don’t just get to plug whomever you want into a seat because you bought a ticket. They had to give that seat up. Now the family may be lying about what happened, but assuming they told the truth for a minute people at the airline need to be fired. Threatening arrest i get but threatening to take their children? No. Cops intimidate people all the time with this threat and it’s disgusting. Also the family claimed they put the child in their lap and yet they were still kicked off? If true people need to be fired. I take what the family sayscwith a grain of salt though.
As usual there’s more to the initial story. Why? In the wake of United’s story the media loves to dig everywhere for anything to add to the fire. They call web trolling “journalism.” This family could have coordinated with the airline and maybe it would have turned out alot better. Flight staff personnew surely do need some sensitivity training!
The family doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Nobody boarded the plane with a boarding pass for that seat so technically it becomes a no show passenger. Delta had every right to put a stand by passenger in the seat. In my opinion what Delta should have done is offer to reimburse them for the seat taking off the table the argument that they paid for the seat and therefore are entitled to it. A passenger can’t just arbitrarily change seat assignments and the name of the person occupying a seat. It’s unfortunate for the family but they originally had planned on holding the child during the flight when they booked their tickets so it shouldn’t have come as a big surprise for them.
Please stop calling it the family’s seat. It is not and never was. The seat was booked to the 18 year old who was a no show. Chances are the person who was supposed to go in to that seat was already on board because the airline has that seat as a no show. I guess that paying customer should be kicked off the flight in favor of the two year old then? I don’t like the way delta handled this but they were right about that seat not belonging to the family.
good to see the passenger kept his cool and not make a real incident out of it.
Delta had a right to the one seat for the no-show 18-year-old. They could have made that argument to the father, but it is not evident during the video. It sure looks like they let the family, car seat and all, on to the plane.
At the end, dad offers to follow Delta’s original instructions and hold the baby. At this point Delta kicks the whole family off, blaming them for the delay. This is absurd. They’ve penalized this family for questioning Delta’s policy, which took all of 8 minutes on the video. Once again, cold-hearted robots seem to be in charge.
This Delta crew was willing to take a stand, with the whole country watching via video, to kick off the family that, after 8 minutes of arguing, agreed to hold the baby and give up the no-show seat. Incredible!!
So hard to get the facts straight on this story. Did they purchase 3 seats or 4? Was there an 18 year old that took and earlier flight? If that’s the case he’s a no show and the airline has the right to fill that seat irregardless of whether it was paid for. But it’s unclear did they have two children flying with them? The 18 month old had a seat in his name I am assuming. So that would have be the 3 seats and the 1 year old infant would have to sit on one of the parents’ laps.
I side with the airline on this one.
@jake uh, because security of course! You can’t change a ticket name because 9/11, and also because of money. I’ll let you decide the real reason – but either way, you absolutely cannot change a ticket from one child to another.
I have no idea why they didn’t just check the son in. To me, they’re idiots – sure Delta could have been nicer, but the seat was gone, the other passengers on board, that’s that. I think most adults understand you can’t change the name on a ticket – this is not some secret contract of carriage rule. And most adults know if you don’t check in and board, they give your seat away.
Let me see if I got this correct – they purchased a ticket for their 18-year old son that he used to board an earlier flight? Then they wanted to use his “seat” again to board their baby? Is that right? Or did they buy another ticket for their 18-year-old son and should have transferred their original seat ticket for their baby? Sounds like the airline was technically correct, though their PR was not the best. Sounds like the parents were trying to fly two people on one ticket.
@Sheila – “The 18 month old had a seat in his name I am assuming.”
I don’t know where in the world you got that out of the story, because there is no evidence that the family had a ticket for this child. In fact, common sense would dictate that none of this would have happened if this child did, indeed, have a ticket, because there would have been no need to use a seat for a passenger who was not on the flight for one who would be on the flight in the first place.
IF an agent actually told a family with small children they were going to jail if they didn’t comply with an airline policy – once again using the power of the state and jail to enforce corporate policy when a customer had already spent thousands of dollars on tickets! – then this needs to be exposed widely as the issue, then employee doing this needs to be warned or fired, and the company needs to make it clear as Untied did that they will not be further using police powers to enforce company policies which is the hallmark of a facist state.
I flew Delta for 40 years until they devalued the mile having the gall to think they could redefine the meaning of a mile and still call it a mile. When I complained to customer service about this proposed new policy,, they told me that if I didn’t like it I could fly someone else so I would walk before I’d fly them anywhere. You don’t talk to customers like this. You need to get it through your fat heads that you serve us, and not vice versa. We are the boss, not you little imperious dictators who are one passenger video away from being unable to show your face ever again in public!
@AannaT – your donut shop may let anyone pick up an order, but many businesses require an ID to pick up an order that was pre-paid via an online channel. Heck, I need an ID to pick up my office’s lunch order. Businesses do this all the time. Delta may have asked to see the ID for 18 year old “Mason”, and realized the seat was occupied by infant “Grayson”. Parents may have planned to file for a refund of “Mason’s” ticket (or used it to fund his earlier flight) in addition to having “Grayson” utilize the seat. In any case, switching names on tickets isn’t permitted and certainly shouldn’t be managed/ requested after boarding.
@Bill – “Threatening arrest i get but threatening to take their children? No. Cops intimidate people all the time with this threat and it’s disgusting.” If both parents are arrested, what do you expect the cops to do with the two minor children? Child Protective Services will be called, and the children held at least until the parents are released from jail. Possibly longer so an investigation can be conducted. Cops were stating facts. If you felt intimidated, then don’t try to use your kids as a shield to resist arrest.
So, reading all the posts about this issue…I am appalled at the those who are so indignant that the airline took a stand and rightfully so. This family, to me, did not appear to be neophytes. They appeared to know EXACTLY what they were doing. To avoid all of this, all they needed to do was call Delta, tell them that their son flew out on an earlier flight and they would like to use that ticket now for their youngest child, what is the surcharge. End of story. But no, they wanted to scam the airline. A no-show passenger is an empty seat. You give up the right to that seat if you are not there to board. You cannot stake claim for a seat that clearly has someone else’s name assigned to it, regardless of who paid for it. Like another poster commented, this was to take advantage of an already fragile time where airlines and passengers are both on the offensive. If Delta would like to take advantage here of compensating this family for that seat, that would go a long way in their public relations. But this family is wrong.
Couldn’t there be a way to figure out the seating confusion before everyone was seated? The airline should have mechanisms in place to avoid a scene while on the plane. Embarrassing for both sides. Family should not have been kicked off after deciding to comply.
They bought 3 tickets. The 18 year old son used one ticket on an earlier flight departing earlier, on the parents flight they now have exactly 2 seats, they were trying to hog 3 seats. They cannot complain, they paid for 3 seats and they got 3 eats. The 18 year old son used one seat and the parents used 2 seats so that is 3 seats. If they wanted the baby to have a seat then they should have paid for 4 seats.
If you ever want to know how the orange clown in a fatsuit could cancel elections and take over – which is the only way he’d ever get anything done anyway – just read the comments of the authoritarian bootlickers who the most hated man on the planet would rely on to act as his jackboot enforcers. Don’t doubt the corporations or you should be arrested and your kids taken away! Don’t stay up all night printing a protest sign and show up on your own campus to protest the pussy grabber or five fat rednecks will shove you between them for all the world to see the blubbering lard that has taken over the American brain.
NO! The American way is to question authority, not go along like some IBM programmed lemming. And if you haven’t learned this by now, the entire force of the generations under 30 who live under modernity and not dictatorship of the corporation will gladly set your country right….soon!
Airlines should just say plainly it’s their plane and the “customer” has NO rights. End of discussion!
The way I understand it is that purchased *5* seats. The initially purchased 4 seats on a flight for their 18-year-old, their 2-year-old and for the mom and dad. The 1-year-old was going to sit on one of the parent’s laps.
But then the 18-year-old decided to take an earlier flight and they purchased a 5th ticket for him, thinking they could use his extra ticket on the later flight for their 1-year-old. But since the 18-year-old never checked in for that later flight, they gave that seat away, and even though the family purchased 5 tickets, they only could use 4 of them (3 on the 2nd flight).
I generaly side with the airline here as seats are not transferable.
There’s a video on YouTube if you’re in doubt of what the family had to say. The airline was in the right this time BUT the crap they told these parents and the lies and how they treated them is very wrong. The dad wasn’t even aggressive or disrespectful. The airline stuff are scum for threatening to take the babies away and other nonsense.
You don’t pay for a seat, you pay for a reservation and the seat is assigned to you. The 18 year old child changed the reservation to another flight. Thereby, his original seat was no longer his and can be released to another .. passenger. That’s all, folks!
Both sides had some wrong. The family was officially breaking the rules…if the seat were bought for someone else, nowadays, that’s it. If that same exact person isn’t in the seat, you have to buy the refundable fare to get a refund, otherwise, you are out of luck. But…I can see how they feel like they bought the seat and should be able to still retain it.
Airlines have gotten more creative and aggressive with the “gotcha’s” and they are making record profits because of it.
I flew many flights within Europe this past summer and was amazed that no one ever check my I.D. I was able to get my boarding pass from agents at the check in counter without showing an I.D. I went through security at least 8 times — no I.D. check. All they care about is that I did not have any dangerous stuff in the bags I was bringing onboard. They did not give a damn if the name on the ticket I purchased online matched my I.D. The U.S. airlines were given a great gift after 9-11 when the government started checking I.D.s against the name on the ticket. Now people cannot sell tickets they purchased that they are not going to use — like they used to pre-9-11, and the airlines LOVE this, as DL did, because when the ticket is a no show, they sell the seat again, or they force the original owner to pay a huge change fee to change the flight instead of selling the ticket online. Ask yourself, how is it that in Europe they don’t check I.D. against an airline ticket for intra-Europe flights, and their rate of terrorists onboard is about the same as ours — i.e. great. FYI, the airlines I flew that did not check I.D.’s were Lufthansa, SAS, Windmere, and the airports were Barcelona, Frankfort, Oslo, Bodo, and Leknes.
@Segments — Picking up the donuts was not the best metaphor, but I realized that after I hit send ; ) First off, I don’t claim that the family was right — I know that they were not, no matter which version of events one believes. I was just trying to get into the mind of a consumer who has purchased something and then feels that they have a right to use it as they see fit.
Perhaps a better example would have been that the dad bought the donuts and felt anyone in his family should reasonably be allowed to eat those donuts. Again, not saying he was right, but, to someone not familiar with airline regulations, it is not unreasonable.
Heck, if the flight attendant said that children under 2 were not allowed to sit in car seats but *had* to be lap children, it seems like even the airline personnel can’t keep the rules straight.
If Greyhound Bus Lines sells tickets and their system knows when not to sell more tickets because the bus is filled capacity why cant the airlines do the same? Is it plain out greed? This will end this saga .
I think Delta screwed up royally here particularly if they were aware that the two year old was replacing the 18 year old on the flight. My understanding is they purchased 5 tickets and Delta agents were clued in. My guess is Delta will be refunding the airfare and hotel night.
I agree, parents were in the wrong to just think that they could transfer the seat from the 18 year old to the baby. If they spoke with delta and told them the plan when they purchased the separate ticket for the 18 year old, why didn’t they then ask if the name could be changed to the baby?
Delta was in the wrong for yet again over selling a flight
Delta also screwed up by threatening to take the kids away???
And if you saw the video, Jenna at Delta was a complete sorry to say, ignorant airline rep by saying FAA stated that children under two need to be on laps and aren’t allowed to have a seat with a child restraint. She said she would print it out in black and white to show FAA regulations: yet when she returned, it seemed like an ultimatum, get off or we’ll hold the plane and have everyone pissed at you for not being able to get to their destination. That’s what’s appalling to me. So Jenna was wrong but didn’t want to admit it. Shame in you Delta for hiring personnel who do fail to know FAA regulations and recommendations and not properly cite the non transferable ticket situation.
I call bullshit on the flight attendants. The only one breaking the rules was Delta Airlines. Here are the FAA safety guidelines I got off the FAA website. “Did you know that the safest place for your child on an airplane is in a government-approved child safety restraint system (CRS) or device, not on your lap? Your arms aren’t capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS or device for the duration of your flight. It’s the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination. The FAA is giving you the information you need to make informed decisions about your family’s travel plans.” Delta lied through their teeth. If there were an accident they would also be short one oxygen mask and flotation device, because your seat acts as a flotation device. The airlines are just out of control.
Delta realizes their people acted badly in Hawaii and have issued an apology. Maybe legally the family was wrong, but the way Delta treated them was wrong too.
Here is the apology:
Delta Air Lines issued the following statement today regarding Flight 2222 on April 23:
“We are sorry for the unfortunate experience our customers had with Delta, and we’ve reached out to them to refund their travel and provide additional compensation. Delta’s goal is to always work with customers in an attempt to find solutions to their travel issues. That did not happen in this case and we apologize.” – News.Delta.com
@Cacinda Maloney Delta did the right thing? Are you kidding me? They threatened to arrest them and take their frickin children. Then it looks like the FA attendant flat out lied about FAA policy. On top of that he calmly offers to hold the child in his lap and the Delta staff decided that wasn’t good enough and that the whole family with an infant and two year old needs to be kicked off of the plane with no place to stay or way travel forward? I get that the guy was in the wrong, because he didn’t understand how the ticket booking works, although its understandable that he would be confused by that. Still kicking them off the plane after he agreed to cooperate? You are out of your frickin mind if you think that is reasonable.
Greg, you should see someone about that problem.
If not for two previous incidents, this would be less of a big deal.
But, in light of the two recent UAL and AA problems, what was Delta FA thinking? Did they think they will get a promotion for making news?
Wouldn’t they have been better off if they had told the stand-by passenger, “We made a mistake. We had a misunderstanding due to a child that qualified as a passenger but was not counted as one. Since it was our mistake, we have arranged for you fly on QRS airlines to arrive at approximately the same time/location as this flight. Here is your boarding pass.”
Right or wrong, I didn’t choose Delta to witness a fight. In fact, I don’t want any drama… none… zero… just a plain uneventful flight. I am not impressed about how quickly you can push back from the gate, or how everyone can remain seated and not use the restroom while you wait to take off, etc.
I don’t want to return to the gate to discard a passenger if they use the restroom while on the taxiway…for 30 minutes. That is between DAL, the FAA, and the disobedient passenger. NOT MY PROBLEM. I do want to return if a passenger or crew member has to get off the plane, for whatever reason, before you take off. That’s right Delta, if a crew member has to deplane, I expect you to return to gate and let them deplane. Returning to the gate is not high drama for a voluntary reason. No big deal. People land all the time and complain about being delayed by the airline. And nobody cares. NOBODY Cares.
And, no DAL, passengers don’t care about your apology, don’t care about your need to sell every seat, don’t care about your ability to enforce authority when it is not needed, etc. We really don’t care DAL, just like you really don’t care. That’s right DAL, we care about you as much as you care about us. Just fly us from point A to B, and don’t make it miserable by dragging, booting, kicking, passengers, or family’s off the plane. When you do, plan on getting a replacement crew for the sake of the passengers. And plan on allowing passengers to deplane and choose another flight. And, who knows, maybe you’ll figure out how to sell those seats also.
The more I learn about this incident the more culpability I assign to Delta. The flight attendants clearly lied to the passenger at the expense of the 1 year old child’s safety. They know the FAA guidelines yet they still lied to the parents. Airlines should start being fined $100,000 for every overbooked flight and I guarantee you they’ll stop this disgusting practice. It’s made even worse with their policy of not assigning seats to some coach passengers. Almost all seats these days in coach are non-refundable so the argument that Delta would lose revenue from a cancelled reservation is just BS and why should they get paid twice for the same seat unless they refund the original ticket holder their money? I assure you that any member of congress that is willing to vote to have 20+ million people lose health care could care less about consumers against big airlines who pay them off with big campaign donations. Delta gives millions in donations to members of congress.
People feel so entitled these days. All Delta wanted the family to do is follow the rules they agreed to when purchasing the tickets. Delta does not owe them anything as it’s a federal law to follow flight crew instructions.
@BigJim, it is NOT federal law that you have to follow flight crew instructions. It is federal law that if you “interfere with the performance of the duties” of the flight crew member, it’s a crime. It’s a common misconception.
As my friend Dan Grossman, a Constitutional attorney explained:
“CNN just published the following quotation from a “expert” in aviation law: “If you refuse to follow a crew member’s instructions, they can throw you off and send you to jail.”
That is simply not the law.
The federal criminal statute applicable to “passenger misbehavior” is 49 U.S. Code § 46504, which makes it a crime to “interfere with the performance of the duties” of a crew member or flight attendant by “assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft.”
Contrary to a common misconception, this statute does not create a general obligation to obey any instruction that a crew member might chose to give. Without assault or intimidation of the crew member, there is no crime under this statute.
It is true that a substantial civil penalty (i.e., a monetary fine) can be imposed under Part 121 of Code of Federal Regulations (which regulates airline travel) on a passenger who fails to comply with instructions about smoking and seat belts (14 CFR 121.317) or who “interferes with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft” (14 CFR 121.580), but even these regulations do not create a general obligation to obey ANYTHING a crew member might tell you to do, nor does a violation allow a passenger to be “sent to jail” as the CNN commentator claims.
Under the regulations in Part 121, a passenger is only obligated to comply with instructions that are (A) lawful, (B) in “the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft,” and (C) where failure to comply would “interfere” with the crewmember’s duties. For example, a flight attendant could lawfully instruct a passenger to turn off his cell phone, or raise his tray table during takeoff or landing (which could block egress in an emergency), and a passenger who refuses to comply could be assessed a very large fine. But if a flight attendant instructs a passenger to hop on one foot and sing happy birthday, refusal to obey would not subject the passenger to a penalty under Part 121 because such an order would not be related to “the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft.” And needless to say, if a flight attendant instructed a passenger to provide sexual favors in the lavatory, the passenger could equally refuse without penalty. (I am not suggesting the second situation would ever take place, merely emphasizing that there is no legal obligation to “do anything a flight attendant tells you.”)
Let me be clear that I am not making a comment about the specifics of the United Airlines situation; there are many issues to consider in deciding if the gate agents, flight crew members, and/or police officers acted lawfully and I am not taking a position on that issue in this post.
Nor am I suggesting that people should casually disregard flight attendant instructions, mainly because those instructions could well have a legitimate safety purpose of which the passenger is unaware, but also because some flight attendants in the past have wrongly accused passengers of “assaulting or interfering” and so, in the practical world, you COULD be dragged off to jail, and a unlawful arrest is no more pleasant than a lawful one.”
Well whether the seat was for the other son or not, they were trying to comply. They did buy the seat, the cops and the flight attendant were rude and ignorant. I called corporate and made a verbal complaint. Will not fly Delta, and made sure i said this. Good way to lose respect and business. Best regards to the family and I hope they know they have support. Sometime it is best to from and beat but this video will make sure their story is heard clearly. DELTA is a joke!!!
-Typo-
Sometimes it is best to grin and bear it, but this video will make sure their story is heard clearly. DELTA airlines is a joke!!!
To get onto the plane, they have to check the ticket and passenger name.
Apparently they did that for the toddler, and saw and allowed the car seat, or the family wouldn’t have been able to enter.
We could think the family lied about the kids’ name, saying his name was his older brothers’.
But the family said they spoke with adepts about the switch, and Delta let them on like this.
If that’s true, this is Delta’s fault. And if you watch the video, the Delta employee lied to them about not being allowed to use the car seat. She was utterly ignorantly arrogantly ridiculous.
How’d the toddler get on the plane if he doesn’t have a ticket?
Children under two don’t need a ticket.
Have they said that the child in question is under 2? Other websites have reported that it was a 2 year old- which would mean he would have needed his own ticket.
It’s obvious by the blatant lies spewed by the flight attendant that Delta could care less about the safety of the 1 year old child. Telling the parents it’s illegal to use a car seat is just a total lie. Also telling the parents that they would throw the 2 young children into foster care is beyond outrageous.
Delta has already paid these folks and apologized so they obviously realize they acted improperly and were completely wrong about how this was handled by their crew and staff. It’s time to pass a law stopping this disgusting procedure of overbooking flights.
Still leading the news and just breaking on many mainstream media so the damage is not yet contained. Not yet $1b damage but already in the several hundred million dollars worth of self-inflicted damage range. The two recent Delta fuehrers (spelling intended) take a major chip out of their reputation as running better than most airlines. These incidents do not happen on Southwest, Alaska or Virgin for a reason. It’s a culture of authoritarian dictatorship that doesn’t fly in this country, as the fat freak Kremlin puppet is finding out no matter how his fat redneck supporters try to prop him up with their gaseous lard.
The child was 2 years old. Delta knew the 2 year old should have had his own ticket but out of greed figured no one know so they tried to sell the seat for the second time subjecting the child to traveling in an unsafe manner. Classless.
The way I understood it was that they purchased three tickets for this flight. Then the 18 year old purchased another ticket on another flight. So they still had the three seats on this flight. The problem is that they went through the ticket booth and only verified two of the seats. The airline thought the other was available. Thus they gave it to someone waiting. They should have let the airline know they were still using that seat by checking in. If they did that then the airline was in the wrong.
One airline employee tells Brian that, under regulations set down by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Grayson can’t sit in the seat because of his young age. The employee claims that two-year-old children are not supposed to have their own seats and must sit in their parents’ laps for the duration of the flight.
The employee’s claim is directly contradicted by guidelines on both the FAA and Delta websites.
“The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS (child safety restraint system) or device for the duration of your flight. It’s the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination,” the FAA says.
The agency describes a CRS as “a hard-backed child safety seat that is approved by the government for use in both motor vehicles and aircraft.”
Meanwhile, Delta’s guidelines state: “For kids under the age of two, we recommend you purchase a seat on the aircraft and use an approved child safety seat.”