United Airlines just announced Houston – Sydney service operated by a Boeing 787-9 starting January 18. This will be United’s second longest route after Los Angeles – Singapore which launches in October.
Here’s the flight schedule:
United once non-sensically claimed that Houston – Auckland wouldn’t make sense if Southwest was allowed to fly from Houston Hobby to Mexico. Apparently that logic doesn’t apply to Sydney (just as it didn’t apply to Air New Zealand).
Fortunately United’s 787-9 cabin is premium heavy with 48 business class seats compared to 30 for American’s 787-9. However until they receive a retrofit these are six-across (2-2-2) business class seats where you climb over a neighbor or a neighbor climbs over you to use the lavatory unless you’re seated in the middle section. That’s far from a preferred configuration on one of the world’s longest flights, and that’s in business class. United Economy for nearly 18 hours is almost unfathomable.
United’s Existing B/E Aerospace Diamond Business Class Seats As Shown on a Boeing 757, Similar to Their Existing 787 Business Class
United’s New Polaris Business Class, as Seen on a Boeing 777-300ER
With Qantas upgrading their Airbus A380s which operate Dallas Fort-Worth – Sydney, and especially if they can get approval for a joint venture with American, there will be real competition for this new Houston flight.
Qantas A380 Arriving at DFW for First Time in October 2014
United makes the case for the flight in its press release about the convenience for Mid-Atlantic passengers,
For example, customers originating in Charlotte, North Carolina have to fly to Chicago to connect to San Francisco to get to Sydney on United today. With United’s new schedule at Houston, customers would now have just one stop at Houston to get to Sydney – saving hours off the journey by reducing the number of connections.
But United offers 5 peak daily departures Charlotte – Houston all operated by regional jets while American offers 11 peak daily departures Charlotte – Dallas all operated by mainline aircraft.
Regardless, more Sydney service is great news. Non-stop US-Australia is one of the toughest premium cabin frequent flyer awards in the world, so more capacity Down Under is something to look forward to.
now cue the DL and AA apologists who claim their ultra-low J count on 788 (28), 789 (30), and 359 (32) are because “they only want cash sales tickets while UA is all giving them away as upgrades and saver awards”
You know that both Charlotte and DFW are hubs for AA right?
@Jason but Charlotte was UNITED’S EXAMPLE
They should have an even larger J cabin for such super longhauls.
Why would UA use a J cabin that is already outdated to launch this?
I assume they are using the old J because it needs to be a 787 those due to the long haul, and they have not retrofitted those. However, I would hope these planes will be more dependable than the LAX/SFO – MEL/SYD 787 flights.
I’m not an airline planner but it would seem adding Charlotte – San Francisco would be the better option here…
@Robert. Thank you. United’s example of Charlotte is a really silly one. I was surprised to learn that United doesn’t fly CLT-SFO. My guess is they just looked up the biggest airport that doesn’t have flights to SFO.
But this flight actually will be useful for people at smaller airports that don’t (and won’t) have flights to SFO or LAX.
US airlines should adopt a 2-2-2 business class configuration on the 787-9 that is all aisle access like Japan Airlines 787-9. JL puts 45 B class seats on its 787-9. While UA 787-9s have more total seats, that is accomplished by squeezing in a larger number of smaller seats in PE and E. The JL B class configuration is fantastic.
Yeah – it’s United’s example. I read their release. The point is that up until now Charlotte hasn’t had one stop service to Sydney on their network, now it will. It’s one of many cities that will now have such service. I think you read way too much into that example.
Can you ever say anything positive? Even when positive news comes out you always find some way to spin it negatively. It’s getting extremely off-putting.
@Jason I think there’s balance here — more service good, especially for those with hopes of using points, subpar inflight product relative to nearest competitor in Dallas. It would be malpractice not to note that.
The anti UA rhetoric is so predictable. Yet even as UA flies the exact same seats from SFO/LAX-SIN/SYD and EWR to DEL/BOM/HKG (which are already very long flights) all competing with other carriers with arguably better onboard products, shows on at least one level, that all your continual complaining about UA’s products doesn’t amount to anything. It simply doesn’t matter. So just stop.
“subpar inflight product relative to nearest competitor in Dallas”
Other than having F class and some really run-of-the-mill W class, the QF A380 isn’t all that great :
J class : both are 2-2-2.
Y class : assuming window and aisle seats are considered desirable, QF has 40% of Y pax in middle seats, versus 33% at a 789 with 3-3-3.
@wp8re – your never-ending defense of UA is as pathetic here as it is on FT. I’m assuming you’re one of the company shills a la fly18725.
@UA-NYC,
1) I don’t work for UA. Never have and have no plans to.
2) I rarely comment on this site or FT. Therefore you’re being a littledramatic with “never ending defense” I just call out hypocrisy when I see it.
3) Name one thing I said above that’s factually untrue.
Pretty sure every single one of your FT posts (infrequent as they are) rushes to the defense of UA anytime you see them criticized – it’s pretty obvious.
Flying the same route as a competitor != competing evenly with them. Much has been written about UA fares on SFO-SIN and EWR-HKG, for example, once SQ / CX entered the market, respectively. EWR-HKG upgrades have gotten a whoooooole lot easier too once CX came in, speaking from neavy experience.
UA works for GS chasers and rock bottom economy fare purchasers, and offers much less to everyone in-between.
@UA-NYC : a loser with a screename of “UA” NYC who got banned from the FT UA forum
hey loser, why don’t you hang out with your pal spin88 ? he’s down at the ramp loading bags.
@wpr8e : feel free to ignore major loser UA-NYC and his pal SPIN88. Those 2 losers are still blaming Smisek in 2017 and still bitching about closing the JFK station. That’s a textbook definition of loser.
@UA-NYC,
I wouldn’t categorize my responses as a defense of United, but pointing out the obvious rationale of business decisions.
Your fare comparison is pretty empty on substance. ECON 101 would tell you that any additional entry into a given market will distribute demand and thus likely depress yields for ALL. Of course it stands to logical reason that upgrades will be easier given the additional seats in the market. It’s also stands to reason that fares would drop. It’s great that CX entered the EWR market and that SQ played catch up in SFO, but both are also not doing that great, despite heaps of subjective opinions that SQ and CX are better in every way than UA. But UA is betting them.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/15/hong-kongs-cathay-pacific-posts-first-annual-loss-since-2008-shares-drop.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-27/singapore-air-returns-to-profit-says-outlook-is-challenging
Yet despite all that, UA has historically commanded a yield premium over SQ in the SIN market, despite the “inferior” product. The fact is UA competes incredibly well over nearly every East Asia carrier.
Gary’s repetitive whinging about United makes him look petty, irrational, incapable of objectivity, and undermines his credibility to analyze the decisions of air carriers. He simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I would agree with you that UA works for the highest status and cheap excursion passengers. That pretty much sums up every carrier operating today.
@Henry LAX
I’ve actually met UA-NYC before. Not sure he knows that. I’ve been invited to a few United events over the years and he occasionally also at these events.
I haven’t been to any recently, but I suspect United stopped giving him special treatment and his silver tongued venom for United came pouring out. He’d go to these events and drink the wine, meet the bigwigs, and then blast them on the internet when he got home.
All these bloggers are the same. The just need their bread buttered and they’ll write glowing reviews. The Points Guy suddenly had nice things to say about United when he got to fly with Oscar. OMAAT has tended to write the same way depending on how United treats them outside the cabins.
But God forbid an airline launch a new product offering (Polaris) which also includes a new seat, but hasn’t yet installed the new seats across hundreds of airplanes on day 1. Who cares what they call it. But yet Gary is here yet again, criticizing UA on a new launch announcement and needs to mention the lack of new Polaris seats again for the 100th time. I guess United is just supposed to wait before the launch new routes and park the planes despite the fact that they’ve been flying the exact same seat for years.
This on on top of the fact that Gary cannot let the Dao story die. He posted yet another story about it today.
Wow you are clueless – the Polaris “roll-out” (quotes intended) has mostly been panned for how underwhelming and ill thought out it is (except for UA brown nosing types like yourself)
– limited planes
– no retrofitting existing 788s/789s
– an OK seat that’s arguably inferior to the Cirrus and Super Diamond reverse herringbone ones that are already years in opration
– one lounge a year into it
– said lounge was too small the moment it opened (poor planning not realizing the influx of ORD T1/2 *A biz pax, plus a more desirable connecting airport once open)
– cutting back on amenities already (and not even talking about the removal of a pillow)
– misleading advertising (Aaaahhhh to Zzzzz…really?)
A classic case of good idea, piss poor execution.
FWIW I have been to a single event, for a whole ~20 minutes, so you’re probably mistaking me for someone else, or projecting your own insecurities. UA events are strictly GS these days, you probably haven’t noticed.
@Henry LAX – in case you missed it, Scott Kirby has also bemoaned UA pulling out of JFK. Whoops. Maybe “we” were on to something…
The launch announcement says Polaris seats, not the old ones:
United’s flight between Houston and Sydney will be operated with Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft with a total of 252 seats – 48 flat-bed seats in United Polaris business class, 63 Economy Plus seats and 141 seats in United Economy.
United Polaris business class features a reimagined, sleep-enhancing experience for intercontinental travelers, including elevated inflight food and beverages, tranquil custom bedding from Saks Fifth Avenue, comfortable pajamas and exclusive amenity kits with products from Soho House & Co’s Cowshed Spa.
@SB – sorry, but “Polaris” refers to all UA int’l biz class flights now, and the rest is just the soft product. 787-9 will have the 10+ year old PMCO seats.
Only the 777-300 (14 flying) have the new seats, and one 763 apparently coming out soon.
@UA-NYC : hahah another idiotic response. he said he lost customers and contracts but he NEVER said the decision drove down total route revenue, margin, or profits. seriously, just go hang out with ramp agent spin88. he’s at your same level of community college intelligence.
@wpr8e : even better, so tell us, is UA-NYC as big as loser he is in person, or an even bigger one ?
@UA-NYC : no one told u stay at UA. hey loser, next time when your AA or DL flight is cancelled, I wanna see you sleep at the airport floor than be rebooked on a UA flight. at least you’ll be less of a loser then.
@@UA-NYC : and what does the “UA” stand for in your sceename ? Under-achiever ? or Undisputed-asshole ?
Apparently “Henry LAX” doesn’t exist on FT…can’t say I’m surprised he wants to hide, probably posts under different aliases. I’m guessing he is one of the UA sycophants on the site.
It’s an adequate product but hardly industry-leading, a consequence of being early to the flat-bed game before direct aisle access was the standard. I’ve crossed many an ocean in the Diamond seat (since it was introduced seven years ago) while the competing AA seat was NGBC, or foreign carriers still had recliners. Time marches on…
What I don’t see covered nearly enough is the fact that, despite the direct-aisle-access seats and premium economy, DL/AA have substantially reduced the # of premium seats on widebody aircraft. Not exactly a welcome development if one is accustomed to using earned upgrade instruments or burning FF miles. At least UA has (so far) kept premium cabins roughly the same size, though slightly diluting the J:Y ratio.
A modicum of patience is in order… until then, by all means, fly those airlines which offer a better product!
Sadly, UA’s Polaris product, which had now had plenty of time to iron out the wrinkles, does not deliver. I recently did EWR-LHR and was disappointed. The cabin crew seemed unsure of what they were doing, and were struggling with service delivery beyond the usual hum-ho UA standard. In all, a pretty unmemorable experience. I cannot imagine willingly doing a non-stop flight almost 3 times as long on UA!